Toyota 3S-GTE please evaluate maps

[mmg]

Hi,

I had my car taken to a workshop for engine rebuild and tune-up.

Unfortunately, the second life of my Toyota lasted only about 1000miles
The first 500 miles resulted in killed turbocharger and constant "check-engine" light caused by knock sensor

After this I replaced the turbo with a big rebuilt hybrid and the DET3 piggytail was replaced with EMU to have things monitored
I left the car to the tuner to have Ecumaster DET3 removed and EMU installed instead

The result was burned out exhaust valves and the brand new turbocharger killed by the tuner while he was preparing a "safe" map for the run-in period.

I have had the engine head fixed now and assembled the engine again (work done myself this time)

My guess is the distributor was set to wrong ingnition angle and the tuner had not checked this with a stroboscope before uploading maps
When I was assembling the engine I aligned the distributor to where it probably was before the failure (basing on bolt marks) , the strobo showed 15 deg. There were also some other bolt marks on the distributor in a completely wrong position. Someone had to have it bolted in a very wrong position at some time.

After this I corrected the timing advance to stock 10deg

The car now feels much slower than it was before the failure (same turbo, turbo rebuilt again)
Before failure there was a crazy quick boost spoolup, now there is a slow spoolup which I would normally expect from a big turbo
So my guess is the problem was mechanical adjustment of the timing advance

Please take a look at the maps that I found in my EMU and tell if they look sensible
I need something to start with the third life of the car

Compression ratio is 9:0

Thanks for any advice

[Jadzwin]

First of all you need to be sure that your base timing is correct.

In Primary trigger settings there is an option lock ignition angle.
Lock this angle to 0 degrees and check with the timing light if the spark is at TDC.

If not adjust the distributor or EMU settings.

To evaluate anything we need to see the log file with lambda/AFR.

[mmg]

Looking up at primary trigger", locked angle is set to 0
Does tihs mean my ignition is now retarted 10deg? And the "wrong" bolt marks (spuosedly at 0 deg) are correct for current EMU settings?
Do I read you correctly - I should I eighter change the software param to 10 or realign the distributor to 0 deg? Whch one is better?
Is there any advantage of the latter, as It is much easier to retype this value than to realign the angle
Do those maps look OK for a safe start
Thanks Jadzwin

[mmg]

Here are my primary trigger settings:



Should I realign the distributor to 0 deg advance?

Thanks Jadzwin

[mmg]

Or maybe I should just realign the distributor to match whatever the igition table says at given rpm/load? Which would mean aprox 20 deg @ idle with my current map?

Jadzwin I fould a post where you publish your own 3sgte map

Your map looks much more sensible to me... do you agree I would be better off typing it in? Maybe you could email me this map as an ".emu" file?

Comparing your map to what I have now, my map is at least 10 deg retarded at vacuum and 1 deg advanced @ boost
So it looks like I have a very agressive competiton map or the map is crap

If I read it correctly, your map is set to 10 deg advance @ idle, which is perfectly what it is in a stock 3sgte car. My map is set to 20-25 deg... Can this be any good?

Here is your map Jadzwin, maybe you could email it to me as afile? That would eliminate the risk of any typing error if I retype it from screen

Your map:

My map:

[samvel]

Just lock it to whatever timing is easiest for you to verify with timing light. Than realign from distributor or trigger angle

[mmg]

I see, I check "ignition angle lock", type locked angle = 10, align to 10, then uncech "Ingition angle lock" - correct?
Would you keep the ignition map that I have now or uploiad the much smoother Jadzwin map?
I already typed it in from screen and saved

[samvel]

All you have to do is making real ignition angle same as ecu ignition angle.
Locking makes it easier, so yes you check ignition angle lock for this. Next you type whatever angle you prefer (depends from what marks you have on damper etc). Next you use timing light on cyl1 and check, adjust, check, adjust until timing matches. As i said you can adjust from distributor or from trigger angle parameter.
For ignition map you must give to engine what it wants. So it is question of tuning, not visual evaluating.

[mmg]

Hello ignition angle set, thanks!
Lock angle to 10 - align to 10
Lock angle to 0 - checked timing 0
Then lock angle to 10 - rev to 3000 - igniton retards to 5
Downloadad software 1.16, upgraded firmware
Set delay to 120ms, timing sits now at locked angle regardless of revs
Changed ignition map to Jadzwin's map as a start point to tune up
Corrected idle
Arranged a visit from a new tuner on friday
Hoping for the best
Thanks

[pepifebles]

What happen if Toyota engine manual say that at idle 750/800 rpm correct ignition timing its 10º, and my idle its 1000rpm? Can I set 10º at my idle 1000rpm o need down my rpm to set?

[samvel]

With EMU rpm doesn`t matter, just lock to whatever ignition is most comfortable for you to verify. Idea is to get actual engine timing and ecu timing be exactly same, thats it.

[pepifebles]

With EMU rpm doesn`t matter, just lock to whatever ignition is most comfortable for you to verify. Idea is to get actual engine timing and ecu timing be exactly same, thats it.

ok but if I move the distributor , it does not modify base timing?

[mmg]

Hi,

You need to synchronize EMU settings with distribtor alignment so that the numers on strobo and screen match
Log in to EMU software. Look for an option "lock ignition angle" . Type "10" and set the "lock" checkbox. Now align distributor to 10 with a strobo lamp.
Change the locked angle to 0. Strobo lamp should show 0.
Now uncheck the "lock angle" checkbox. Look up the "Ignition angle" gauge on laptop. The strobo lamp shoud follow the gauge and show whatever the gauge shows

The newest EMU version has an option to compensate the digital-to-analog delay that causes ignition angle to desynchronize on high revs.
You can tune that by locking angle to 10 and then open throttle with one hand while flashing the strobo with te other hand. You will observe the ignition angle to retard with revs. Increase the "delay" value until the ignition is solid at 10 regardless of revs. In my case I set the delay to 120ms.
This requires upgrading EMU firmware to the latest version

My car drives very well after that. Tuned at 0.9 bar for start, will try more boost after finishing some more important stuff.
Good luck!

[pepifebles]

Thanks, I´ll have to upgrade my emu version, still 1.1. When I will do it to latest versions, my car runs inmediately or will have modify any new map??

[PSI-Motor]

Doesn't look like a real tuner did the tuning.

[mmg]

Doesn't look like a real tuner did the tuning.

You mean the old maps or distributor setting?
I hired a new tuner now, tuned the car on road a bit and have some new maps now
The car drives OK, safe AFR, safe EGT, no knock
Still some work to do on the car before the final tuning
I hope for a second tuning session and to give it full stick this friday on road this Friday Then a final third session on a dyno next week possibly.. A lot of mechanical work to do on the car before that

[mmg]

Thanks, I´ll have to upgrade my emu version, still 1.1. When I will do it to latest versions, my car runs inmediately or will have modify any new map??

Car wil run as before, only some new software options will appear on the laptop
like the ignion delay for example