M54 BMW Duel Vanos

[RHD]

Hi
Does anyone know the trigger and cam sensor sequencing configuration and settings for this engine??

All three triggers are all Hall affect and each cam has a single solenoids low side driven so the wiring is all pretty straight forward.

thanks

[Jadzwin]

Hi!

Please just connect all 3 sensors to EMU and make the cope trace,
One with all falling edge, and one with all rising edge.

Then put it here and we will discuss what trigger type and what settings should be used.

Then we also discuss how to configure VVTi.

I think it could be good training material for forum users

[RHD]

Hi Jakub
OK i actually did that today and got all three signals working but i didnt save the scope traces. I will save and get them posted up tomorrow.

There appears to be only one tooth on each cam and standard 60-2 on the crank

My first requirement for getting it started is to understand how to synchronize the primary trigger with a missing tooth and also a sync signal. Does the EMU still ignore the missing tooth and start the offset/Ignition sequence directly from the sync signal??... If this is the case then how can we determine the first tooth and trigger angle if the cam signal is going to be variable??

OR Does the EMU still start from the missing teeth as usual but also use sync signal to determine the start of the sequence??

edit: Both the cams have a Half circle disc giving 50% high and 50% low signal and the crank has missing teeth 324 degrees after cyl 1 TDC

[RHD]

here are the scope captures

Intake is cam 1
Exh is cam 2

NOTE engine TDC (cyl1) occurs about 5 teeth BEFORE the missing teeth

also note the Hall trigger cam tooth is a half circle or 180 degrees long on the cam (360 crank degrees) so this gives the impression of both rising and falling captures having the same pattern but infact one is 360 crank degrees apart from the other.


1st TDC position with Falling edge capture



Rising edge

[Jadzwin]

Hi!

All falling edges will be ok


For prim triger use just 60-2
For cam#1 use one tooth
For cam#2 use Prim tooth range and enter the range of primmary trigger teeth. It seems to be between 68 and 88

[RHD]

Ok earlier today i cranked it over with fuel and it actually fired straight up no problem, all i did was change the Sync signal to rising edge

(i think i could set all the triggers to rising and it will still run the same but if the sync needs to be falling then i will just need to start the sequencing from cyl 6)


Im not sure exactly what you mean here

For cam#2 use Prim tooth range and enter the range of primmary trigger teeth. It seems to be between 68 and 88

here are all the trigger settings to make it run, i didnt take a running scope of the signals which i should have done

[PSI-Motor]

Why is it set to vvti and not vanos?
Are you using FW 1.016?

[Jadzwin]

Hi!

For single solenoid vanos VVTi is correct. VANOS option is only for Dual Solenoid CAM control.

For CMA#2 try this settings:

[RHD]

ok thanks will add these settings.

can you please explain what all these settings actually represent for us?

plus explain how the primary trigger and sync are read and used by the ecu with missing teeth like this situation

Also cam offsets?

if we understand what we are actually entering it will help to understand the workings for future reference etc.

[Jadzwin]

HOW SYNCHRONISATION FOR 60-2 TOOTH WORKS (and other missing tooth application)


For 60-2 and camsync the tooth are count as follow:



As you can see the tooth number 0 is always the firs tooth after gap and after cam sync

[Jadzwin]

So for CAM#2 we used synchronisation to primary trigger.

On the scope that was sent by RHD you can see that:



A is the edge of CAM#2 signal.
And we defined the tooth range from 66 to 88. When EMU detects signal edge in this region it will be used as reference for CAM#2 position.
I assume wide range of it because I do not know in what direction will the CAM move.
It can be checked on the EMU scope during cam control and the range could be adjusted to more narrow.

But the region is very important if there are many tooth on CAM#2 because during CAM adjusting in the defined region only one tooth can exist.

[Jadzwin]

For configuring vvti the cam offset is shown in the log file as CAM#1 angle and CAM#2 angle (you can use VVTi preset on the log).
You need to enter this number ( but negative) into calibration of CAM. The cam angle should be 0 if the solenoid is not controlled.

And depending of the cam roatation direction you will enter negative angle into table or positive.

More about setting vvti is here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=42

[RHD]

Ok That all starts to make sense but this ecu does not have those options in the cam#2 dialog box? i think this one is version 1016

so once i get some logs up of the cam position i can set the offsets to bring the log trace back to Zero, and then play with the steady state duty and duty limits to find the max advance and retard of each cam?

Then for actual cam control 3D table do we enter +ve and -ve numbers of degrees?? or do the cams usually start all the way at one end and control is all +ve (or -ve) numbers?

unfortunately i am not able to run the engine at the moment

[Jadzwin]

Please upgrade your EMU software to newer version.

The CAM when solenoid is not powered is in one outermost position. So the ide is that this position is our 0 degree.
So in the table you should use positive or negative values depending on CAM rotation direction.

[RHD]

Jakub

where to get the current software?? ecumaster.com still only has 1016?

Rama

[przema72]

http://www.ecumaster.com/testVersions.html

[RHD]

Ok sorry to leave this thread hanging but the car has been partially dismantled and is away getting cage and body work done so as soon as the customer has it back together and running again i will continue and post up findings etc

[RHD]

So for CAM#2 we used synchronisation to primary trigger.

On the scope that was sent by RHD you can see that:



A is the edge of CAM#2 signal.
And we defined the tooth range from 66 to 88. When EMU detects signal edge in this region it will be used as reference for CAM#2 position.
I assume wide range of it because I do not know in what direction will the CAM move.
It can be checked on the EMU scope during cam control and the range could be adjusted to more narrow.

But the region is very important if there are many tooth on CAM#2 because during CAM adjusting in the defined region only one tooth can exist.

Ok we have another m54 on its way to get tuned and i will need to make sure I am clear on a few things when the tuner starts asking me questions. Im a little confused with where you have marked the ZERO and 58 for the start and finish of the tooth count.

does the EMU count the missing teeth as if they are there or does it work off the actual teeth??

1) If the first edge or line after the gap is tooth ONE then ZERO (or 60) would be one of the missing teeth is that correct? so to be exact where you marked the 58 would that not be closer to 61 and the exact spot where you marked the ZERO would be in fact about tooth 2 ?

I also have an m44 bmw coming up soon and i will need to use the same function accurately to pick a sync signal. They have an odd firing 4 tooth cam trigger so i need to carefully choosing an edge that falls in open space on the alternate cycle.

2) When we go to set up the VVT how do we determine the steady state duty setting?? I understand its the point when the cam starts to move but how do we find that? I would think as soon as the system is active the cam position PID control will be trying to correct the cam position so the duty i enter may or may not be what the solenoid is actually delivering?? so how do we lock the control function out while we adjust the steady state setting until we see movement in the cam position?

thanks

[Jadzwin]

1) The first tooth after the gap is always tooth number 0. I'm not sure what are you asking for
2) For double vanos it is always 50%, the frequency about 20-30Hz. For other VVti systems I use PWM output table and change DC looking at current cam postion. If the cam change direction I know the steady pos DC

[RHD]

thanks Jakub

1) So the missing teeth dont get counted/estimated? that was the main question.... so the counts are purely the teeth that cause a signal, in this case one complete cycle of 720degrees = 116 teeth?

2) Ok very easy thank you, so just assign the output to the aux PWM table and adjust until cam just moves on the cam position logs then transfer the DC to the single VVT control settings!

3) This engine the cams start where one is fully retarded and the other is fully advanced, will we need to put negative numbers in one of the tables to specify cam position? (to retard the one that is fully advanced?)

4) ignition synchronization is always done using CAM#2 input? and this is now used with other non vvt or single cam vvt engines too?

5) i read that the Frequency in some software version need to enter double the amount required, is this true for version 1.068??