Ecumaster forum

Hi
I have been going over the settings for the bike and i think i have made an error with the injector phasing for injectors 2 and 3 also i dont know where the offset of 60 degrees came from is this required? The engine is a 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa Turbo, the bike has been running well and making good power through the year



could someone advise on this please.
Thanks in advance

Is your firing order 1-2-4-3 ?

In general event if your injectors phase is random the engine will make good power and will work very good on medium and high loads because injectors opening time is relative long in comparision to crank rotation (DC).

Hovewer good phase can improve idle, and make the fuel economy better (on low / medium loads).

Hi
Yes firing order is 1243 from this i thought i had set injection to 4321 sequence, the engine is only realy used at high rpm and loads but the ability to idle is nice i have found the information below from suzuki
thanks for your help

i see 4312 in materials = not like you write in your post 4321

Hi Karel
good spotting, this is the problem when i make mistakes in my post what chance does the engine have
so with a 1-2-4-3 firing order should my injector sequence be 4-3-1-2 or should i go with the suzuki chart which also gives 4-3-1-2 with an offset ? i assume the offset is due to high rpm (11000 max )
Final question is offset figure in EMU before or after ignition event ?

thanks for you assistance

I would try:




It should be similar to factory injector phase

This i made for a 4cyl car engine.1342 ignition.
I hope i did cam trigger correct.

Now is the ouestion , which injection phase would be better? . Red, blue or green ?



Grts
Patrick

Thanks Jadzwin
i will try that once i have rebuilt the engine, next season we plan to up the power to around 400 BHP this is why i am double checking all settings
Patrick i think blue sequence is correct maybe lol

Mmm i doubt. I think it's to late.

Better would be variable injector phasing.
Start injection close to opening inlet valve on idle/low revs and pulling back on rising revs.
On very high revs it dosn't matter because there is not much time anyhow.

Any opinions ?

I remember reading an old fuel injection article where GM experemented with injection timing and found timing had little effect on the engine as the fues simply collected behind the inlet valve. However that would be for 1980's low reving v8 engines. with todays better injectors you would loose the benefit of better fuel atomisation.
Can anyone tell me if the injector offset value is before or after the ignition event for the injector ? if so would using this be of benifit in this application ?

PBU wrote:Mmm i doubt. I think it's to late.

Better would be variable injector phasing.
Start injection close to opening inlet valve on idle/low revs and pulling back on rising revs.
On very high revs it dosn't matter because there is not much time anyhow.

Any opinions ?

Variable injection timing can be quite useful, especially with variable cam phasing in play as well.

chris72 wrote:I remember reading an old fuel injection article where GM experemented with injection timing and found timing had little effect on the engine as the fues simply collected behind the inlet valve. However that would be for 1980's low reving v8 engines. with todays better injectors you would loose the benefit of better fuel atomisation.
Can anyone tell me if the injector offset value is before or after the ignition event for the injector ? if so would using this be of benifit in this application ?

Injection timing becomes more important when you have large injectors, as well as large quantities of fuel to inject. With a large injector, your pulsewidth is shorter, so it's more important to time the injection event as it relates to the induction event. With larger quantities of fuel, it's critical that you time the injection so that you can avoid fuel puddling (in some instances, not all) and more importantly, gain the most from the cooling effect of the fuel. I've seen some impressive results on high specific output engines (around 600hp per liter) where nothing was changed except the injection timing. As with anything, the results of a change are often more dramatic at higher power levels.

What's worth noting is that many OEM ECUs will alter between open and closed-valve injection (meaning fuel is injected when the inlet valve is closed or open) depending on operating conditions. At full load, most will tend toward open-valve injection, but at low load they'll use the hot intake valve to assist in vaporizing the fuel, so they'll use closed-valve injection. On cold starts with low load, they'll switch to open-valve injection to reduce wall-wetting and fuel puddling.

I can't recall how the offset value is calculated, that would be useful to have indicated in the software. What I suggest is doing several pulls on the dyno at different injector offsets and monitoring the change in power output. Changes in the injector offset should result in a slight change in your wideband reading. In this instance I wouldn't use the wideband value as a reference for making changes so much as I would the power output to see what the engine responds well to.

best test for correct timing is 4 gas analyser and measuring HC that will give you clear indications.. what is best for given engine camshaft injector configuration.

I assume the lower HC the better ?

yes, HC are unburn hydrocarbons so burn is more complete:)

Hi Gregpe

thanks for the information, that makes perfect sense. I have some dyno time planned in January mainly to set the fuel up at the new higher boost levels but i will try varying the injector offsets.
can anyone tell me if the offset in the software before or after the trigger event.

Hi,

in one of latest software you have working english help for it:

chris72 wrote:Hi Gregpe
can anyone tell me if the offset in the software before or after the trigger event.

I do not understand what has wasted spark option to do with the injection sequence
You still use ignition seq 1,2,3, and 4 .

Injection timing is defined by ignition event, so there is a scheme how it works in wasted spark mode

ignition EVENT not ignition OUTPUTS so event is 1234 and outputs 1212 and injector is timed with ignition event !!