Ecumaster forum

I have attached a professional tune for a 3S-GTE, please evaluate it: (obviously, do not use on your car, may destroy components, hydrolock engine, corrupt ECU, break engine and cause other problems).



Are there any obvious mistakes? The issues it has from my viewpoint are:

* It runs very hot.
* Spools slow, see the graph.
* Doesn't make a lot of power, again, see the graph. A quote from a different professional tuner said my setup in terms of sheer hardware should be able to produce around 500 flywheel HP. I don't have anywhere near this at the moment.
* Runs extremely lean: 18-20 AFR (!) when it is cold and is almost unusable (even for just city driving) before it heats up
* Carbon deposits accumulate very fast on the plugs.

Should I give it more fuel, or less fuel overall? I'm assuming that it needs at least more fuel when it is running cold. How do I adjust this such that only the fuel given when it is cold will be affected?

Are there any obvious mistakes with the tune that I can correct myself? What should I change, and how?

Engine runs hot ???? Water or EGT ?

Slow spool ? This happens on too rich , not too lean, cos leaner means hotter EGT an faster spool

Extreme lean 18-20 AFR ? I cant remember any engine that would run on such a lean AFR. The leanes what i can make run is cca 15,5:1, and over 16 i have always massive missfire. But i can easly imagine that your mixture is so rich, that you have also missfire and lambda read free air in exhaust and shows lean.

Did you calibrate your Lambda ? Do you have some leaks in exhaust etc.....

And this tune is terrible !!!! Your VE and IGN maps are like rocky mountains ...... and who made it ? This person has no idea how to do it right.

For example at 7193 RPM and 90kPa only 23 is toooo low (i would expect somthing like 32-37 degree or even more) and
1976 RPM at 290kPa with 26° it looks tooooo much for me.

The ignition works like that :
more RPM = more IGN
more Boost = less IGN

every map MUST!!!!! be smooth, if you will smooth engine work.

So go back and work harder, learn something and be carefull, dont destroy your car



And if your injectors are 433 like set in EMU, your VE will be over 100 on 100kPa above, so i think you are extremly low.

Karel wrote:Engine runs hot ???? Water or EGT ?

Slow spool ? This happens on too rich , not too lean, cos leaner means hotter EGT an faster spool

Extreme lean 18-20 AFR ? I cant remember any engine that would run on such a lean AFR. The leanes what i can make run is cca 15,5:1, and over 16 i have always massive missfire. But i can easly imagine that your mixture is so rich, that you have also missfire and lambda read free air in exhaust and shows lean.

Did you calibrate your Lambda ? Do you have some leaks in exhaust etc.....

And this tune is terrible !!!! Your VE and IGN maps are like rocky mountains ...... and who made it ? This person has no idea how to do it right.

For example at 7193 RPM and 90kPa only 23 is toooo low (i would expect somthing like 32-37 degree or even more) and
1976 RPM at 290kPa with 26° it looks tooooo much for me.

The ignition works like that :
more RPM = more IGN
more Boost = less IGN

every map MUST!!!!! be smooth, if you will smooth engine work.

So go back and work harder, learn something and be carefull, dont destroy your car



And if your injectors are 433 like set in EMU, your VE will be over 100 on 100kPa above, so i think you are extremly low.

Too hot: EGT, the exhaust runs hot, the professional tuner who tuned it claimed that the exhaust was glowing red when running it on the dyno and that there were general problems with it being "too hot". That is pretty much all I know about that issue.

I'm assuming the lambda is correctly calibrated, but I don't know how to verify this.

Note that it only runs this lean when it is started cold. After it is warm, it runs at around 10-14 AFR.

I didn't make the tune myself, it was made by a professional tuner, but I will be nice enough not to write his name or the name of the company here.

Do you have any advice for what I can do specifically to improve it?

I forgot to add, it also runs high boost while not making much power. 1.4 bar, and only 310 rwhp.

So first, this is not professional work for sure! Its a Shame ! Even on any startup map, you will never see mess like that! Sorry but it makes me very angry if someone call himself "Protuner" and makes work like this.

If you have lean values just on warump, you can change the coolant enrichment... no problem.

I would recommend to use LSU4.2 connected directly to EMU, not using it as analog input.... but if it is correctly done, no problem.....


So my recomendation is, find very fast some realy good tuner, and he should start from beginning, and tune it propertly.

if u call this a professional tune, you should make it tuned to a real professional.

Thanks for your advice.

Could someone maybe provide me with a base map for the 3S-GTE, and I could see how that runs on my setup (with modifications made by me that are specific to my setup)?

try this file, its yours with tables fixed, drive the car and make a log file then post here, will try to help but other parameters may be wrong like injectors size and base timing, these have to be reviewed as base timing is very important.
this is not a tune to go driving full throtle its just a starting point for logging and will go from there so dont abuse on the engine.
again seeking a professional tuner is your best choice.

roquete wrote:try this file, its yours with tables fixed, drive the car and make a log file then post here, will try to help but other parameters may be wrong like injectors size and base timing, these have to be reviewed as base timing is very important.
this is not a tune to go driving full throtle its just a starting point for logging and will go from there so dont abuse on the engine.
again seeking a professional tuner is your best choice.

Thanks!

Those maps look quite different from what I have. I will give it a try and post the log.

I've attached a log. I didn't want to test it further as it seemed unhealthy to the engine. My AFR instrument up front was showing as low as 9 just by barely touching the throttle (10%) and it refused to accelerate beyond 2000 RPM. Very hesitant acceleration too, seemingly the more throttle given, the less it wanted to accelerate. When idling after heated there was also a lot of idle hunting.

Before heating up: I don't have a log of this. However, it was way worse than this before it heated up, I don't have a lot of that, but before having heated up, the engine would stall by itself and idle roughly at < 500 RPM.

bont worry about being RICH its better than being LEAN.
What are your injector size? if you dont know try to read the part numbers on them.

roquete wrote:bont worry about being RICH its better than being LEAN.
What are your injector size? if you dont know try to read the part numbers on them.

I was told (and paid for) they are 1000 cc, however, in the ECU configuration, the flow rate seems way too load for 1000 cc. "Injectors size" is defined as 433 cc/min. Should not injectors that are 1000 cc be around 1000 cc/min?

I can try to read the part numbers, but they are hard to reach.

Is Your IAT sensor works correctly ? ? ? in log file the temperature is 65 degrees stable .... in my opinion there is something wrong with it. Also everything is wrong

try this and log.
if possible to read part numbers would be good to know for shore what flow rate you have.

Kisielisodd wrote:Is Your IAT sensor works correctly ? ? ? in log file the temperature is 65 degrees stable .... in my opinion there is something wrong with it. Also everything is wrong

It has no IAT sensor at all.

roquete wrote:try this and log.
if possible to read part numbers would be good to know for shore what flow rate you have.

The only difference is the injector size? At least it needs less fuel when under acceleration now since AFR reads so low? It cannot move past 2500 RPM and cannot drive forward at all when there is slight elevation in the road. I will try to adjust it myself, I just need to study some introductory material first.

diracdeltafunct wrote:

Kisielisodd wrote:Is Your IAT sensor works correctly ? ? ? in log file the temperature is 65 degrees stable .... in my opinion there is something wrong with it. Also everything is wrong

It has no IAT sensor at all.

Would having no IAT sensor at all maybe explain why the map looks so strange?

What do you mean by "everything is wrong"? What should it look like?

post log.
low AFR means more fuel, if your going to tune it start from the scratch, but always have more fuel dont lean it or you may have det and engine seizure.
1st - Check basic timing with strobe light
2nd - check injector flow rate
3rd - calibrate coolant sensor and intake temp sensor
4th - calibrate wideband
5th- calibrate knock sensor
start tuning your fuel table and ignition table, and then the warmup and afterstart enrichments.

The VE and IGN table cannot look like this! IAT sensor must be connected because intake air temp. is substantial factor of fuel dose calculations.

Jadzwin wrote:The VE and IGN table cannot look like this! IAT sensor must be connected because intake air temp. is substantial factor of fuel dose calculations.

Are you sure it is critical to being able to drive around at all? My car has no IAT sensor, but it is perfectly drivable. The problems I stated above do not relate to normal use, but for WOT use.

But even at WOT, the car does after all make 310 rear wheel HP, it does this without any IAT sensor. If the intake air temperature is most of the time around 65 degrees, then how much do really slight variations for this figure matter? It doesn't seem to matter much if the ambient temperature is 15 degrees or 5 degrees, the engine works more or less the same.

Please note: I'm not saying an IAT sensor is useless. I'm only saying that since my car is running at all, albeit with much less performance than it should have, it seems that you can, under some circumstances, maybe run the car without an IAT sensor.