Injection angle control - new software

[Jadzwin]

Hello guys!


There is new software 1.163 with injection angle control.



In most cases the End of injection should be selected.

It is important to properly set up injectors phase first.

If your ignition outputs table looks like this: (4 cyl 1-3-4-2) you need to setup the injection phase as follow:


It is important that ignition output offset is automatically applied in the software so you do not need to transpose anything

Due to injection angle control you can improve your fuel consumption in low / med load and improve your idle quality, especially when you use big injectors.

The easiest way to determine the proper injection angle is to keep engine in steady state for given load/ RPM and modify injection angle table to get the richest possible mixture.

You can download the software from:

http://www.ecumaster.com/tv

I'm looking forward for your feedback

[bmwmaster]

hi,

this seems to be an real cool feature. Especially i think and hope that it will be easyier to setup the injection timing right. This setup until now is really confusing me an there is not much documentation about it anywhere. The examples dosn't help much because it is for 4 cyl. engine. I have 6 cyl.

Please could you give more explenation why whe should the injection event on other ign. event etc.... without this information it becomes more and more difficult tu use this feature and be sure to have set everything right.

Also for the old method it took me a lot of research to understand it and to set it right. Even now im not 100 percent sure...............

I think this point is confusing a lot of EMU Users and mor Explenation, although it is not easy would help alot............
I hope you will explain more.

[BigMac]

Takes me a while to figure it out but it would with any ECU . I even set up the timing light on an injector to see when it was spraying in relation to tdc intake

[RHD]

yes before it was much more complicated but now it should be a lot easier to use!

things to watch is there are 3 different strings to pay attention to:

first you have ignition EVENTS this is the order things happen from the ecu and they always go 123456... etc

secondly you have ignition OUTPUTS they follow the firing order of the engine, but this can start from any cylinder so maybe as with a 2Jz it goes 241536 (so in this case cyl1=event3)

thirdly you have INJECTOR outputs, this is where it can get a little confusing because they must match the ignition OUTPUTS but!... they are listed by ignition EVENTS, so the actual order may appear obscure

so just put both tables next to each other and make sure that IGNITION output 1 matches INJECTION output 1 on the same EVENT and IG OP 2 matches INJ OP 2 etc etc... (in the 2jz firing order above these would both be on EVENT 3 and both be on EVENT 1 respectively)

So now what you have is the injector event and ignition event (not spark event) at the same point which i assume is TDC compression (I would hope they corrected this to TDC instead of from the first trigger tooth as it was before which just added another whole layer of confusion)

So now this is where the new feature comes in!!.. it's not really ideal to have the injector opening at tdc compression, at this point both valves are closed! A better place is to have it open when the intake valve is open or just before in some cases but this happens some 360 crank degrees later, plus its not always the injector opening point thats important but the closing point so now you can select either one and you can also choose the exact point at which this happens. On the 3d table the default settings you will see are all 400 degrees so in this case the injector either starts or finishes 40 degrees after TDC on the intake stroke when the intake valve is just opening!!

[bmwmaster]

ok....

thanks for this good explaination......i will look over it when i have an free minute to understand it right. But also directly i have one problem and question.
Im running wasted spark....so there are just 3 Ignigion outputs......and exactly maching ignition and injection outputs is not possible.

[Bartu]

That's why you are matching Injector Phases (outputs) to Ignition Events.

You have as many Ignition Events as cylinders - in you case 6 ( 3 pairs having same Ignition Output - from 1 to 3)

Best way not to make mistake is to open "Ignition - Ignition outputs" ("I-IO") and "Fueling - Injectors phase" ("F-IP") side by side and then for "Injector phase 1" you search for "Ignition output 1" in the right column of "I-IO", and set according "Ignition event X" (from left column of "I-IO") to "Injector phase 1" in "F-IP" ---> then repeat for next 5 cylinders.

[redmkiv]

Test it on a 2JZ non VVTI with ID 1000 and Stock Engine with EFR 8374 best results between 410and 450.
I think it is a must have for the EMU

[ihiryu]

Forgive my noobness, but what is the purpose of this? My car runs perfectly fine, and gets pretty good gas mileage. Is this worth the changeover?

[WHPZach]

Forgive my noobness, but what is the purpose of this? My car runs perfectly fine, and gets pretty good gas mileage. Is this worth the changeover?

Just like any other table, this allows you to give the engine what it wants. The timing of the injector event in relation to the intake valve event will have different needs at different RPM. This isn't a make or break feature like ignition timing, but it will improve efficiency and power.

[RHD]

ok....

thanks for this good explaination......i will look over it when i have an free minute to understand it right. But also directly i have one problem and question.
Im running wasted spark....so there are just 3 Ignigion outputs......and exactly maching ignition and injection outputs is not possible.

That is a point worth mentioning with no sync or secondary trigger signal and a wasted spark setup you should be selecting the "squirt twice per revolution" option so in this situation the injector will be opening once every crankshaft revolution so that will typically be once when the intake valve is closed and once when its open. The ability to avoid this is one of the benefits of full sequential injection but in the squirt twice configuration this timed injection feature should still have some merit for improved running and performance.

If you have a secondary trigger sync signal then it does not matter if you run wasted spark or not you can still run up to 6 injectors in full sequential configuration.

[jbrito]

Hi people

My car is a E36 M50B25

Ignition order: 153624

Is this right? i am having trouble with this setup no mater what angle i use at the map...

[ihiryu]

Okay,

So I understand the concept, we want the injector to spray fuel either right before the intake valve has opened, or right as it has opened. What I don't understand is the table.

So we all know the crankshaft to camshaft is 2:1. So the crank has to rotate twice (720) to get the cam to rotate once (360).

With that being said, if we're at 360 on the table, that means that the injector is spraying at TDC (all valves closed). So wouldn't our default value be 360, and not 400?

Secondly, the table's roof is at 1440. This is assuming that the table is a degrees.

So if this is all correct, then tuning this table without a load bearing dyno, or A LOT of datalogs will be difficult. While I agree, this won't make or break a tune, this allows us to get the last remaining 1% of an engine. If that's the case, I need to learn it, because I want to become an exceptional tuner, and not another decent tuner

[Jadzwin]

In general it is easier to used end of injection.

If the injectors are located near the inlet valves you can try set the end of injection to the moment when the intake valves close.

The table is to 1440 because if you are near 720 and you need to move to eg. 10 the interpolation would make a mess.
In such situation you can just enter 730 and everything is ok (730 == 10)

[bmwmaster]

ok....

thanks for this good explaination......i will look over it when i have an free minute to understand it right. But also directly i have one problem and question.
Im running wasted spark....so there are just 3 Ignigion outputs......and exactly maching ignition and injection outputs is not possible.

That is a point worth mentioning with no sync or secondary trigger signal and a wasted spark setup you should be selecting the "squirt twice per revolution" option so in this situation the injector will be opening once every crankshaft revolution so that will typically be once when the intake valve is closed and once when its open. The ability to avoid this is one of the benefits of full sequential injection but in the squirt twice configuration this timed injection feature should still have some merit for improved running and performance.

If you have a secondary trigger sync signal then it does not matter if you run wasted spark or not you can still run up to 6 injectors in full sequential configuration.

Sadly variable angle control doesn't work with sqirt twice together, its not possible to activate. I think i will install an second trigger....any tips?

[Jadzwin]

Yes it will not work in wasted spark. It works in full 720 degree engine cycle so you need to go full seqentional.

[Maciekx]

And with wasted spark ignition and fully sequentinal injection?

[Jadzwin]

No problem at all. You just need to have cam sensor

[ezukas]

I'm trying to find some clear statement - what Injection Angle table refers to? But I can't find, so I must ask. One could assume that default 400 degrees in the table are ATDC compression. But some systems refer to BTDC compression (Motec) and in such case 400 degrees in the table would mean 320 degrees ATDC compression. So, is table referring to ATDC compression or to BTDC compression?

I guess it is not some other reference point, because of the following statement: "It is important that ignition output offset is automatically applied in the software so you do not need to transpose anything". Therefore I dropped other possible reference points out of the question. But only author could answer, or somebody who tested and measured with oscilloscope.

Thank you

[ren]

its relative to TDC for that cylinder. Ign at 0deg, expansion to 180deg, exhaust to 360deg, intake to 540 deg, compression to 720 deg.

TDC 0---EXPANSION---180---EXHAUST---360---INTAKE---540---COMPRESSION---720

So injection end angle is the crank angle you want the injection to be finished by.

Contrary to what seems logical, there is merit in injecting against a closed inlet valve.

[ezukas]

thanks ren. What you have stated is clear. I just have not found anywhere written that value in the EMU Injetion Angle table is added to TDC 0 (angle ATDC) to calculate end or start of injection. I assumed it is so until I noticed that identical table in Motec reffers to the TDC 720 - values in the Injection Angel table are subtracted from 720 (angle BTDC) to calculate injection angle. It would be nice to have this confirmed by Ecumaster.

Also default value 400 led me to this question. As EOI 400 ATDC woud be on pretty much open valves. But 400 BTDC (or 320 ATDC) would be slightly before opening, as you pointed out, ren.