Setting up the knock control at a 1,8T AGU

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:59 pm

No fuel is Ultimate 102 octane. The 1,8t has a fuelpressure of 3 Bar +/- intake manifold pressure.

WBO is on default values and it say the same as the extarnal AFR controller.

VE table is not tune complete at every pressure. But i think the values are too high, 75 at idle is very high. All enrichments are at 100%. What kind of VE is normal?

Post by **Jadzwin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:57 pm

For WBO you should measure Rcal resistor and enter this value into Oxygen sensor calibration.
This VE tables value for pump gas seems to be too high...

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:11 pm

Here is the VE Table but only used now up to 140kPa and over 100kPa the enrichment is very rich.

The question is only VE at idle. At load i know it is to rich. But when the VE at idle is to high and the AFR is ok then there is a calculating problem or not?

And when this is true i want to know where the problem is. My problem is that i have no reference and my feeling was that VE values are to high. Buy i am not sure. Mabe there is something wrong with the settings of the injectors or some where else.

Normally it is not a problem because when i adjust the VE table live at my engine it sould be ok. But i want get it right from the beginning.

Post by **Jadzwin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:49 pm

I suppose that calibration for Siemens Deka is not correct.
Try the following calibration (it fits better your FPR).
It should lower the VE (not injectors PW).

You can also play with injection angle.
Try the following settings...

And check if your lambda is correctly configure.

I have similar configuration 2 liters engine, siemens deka at 3 bar and have VE abot 50 at idle.

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:55 pm

OK i will try it next time. Can i test or calculate the calibration by my self. I know from a lot of people that the Deka are very poor injectors.

What kind of VE value is normal at idle, or do you have an example table.

Post by **Jadzwin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:59 pm

The Siemens injectors are not very repeatable. It is not advised to mix them between different production batch.

The injector cal is a dead time. The time during the injector doesnt provide fuel. It is in fnction f battery voltage.

VE table on idle is in most cases in range 40-50

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:31 pm

Normaly i have to use the following injector phase

4
2
1
3
Because we use an offset of 2 at the ignition outputs and these are:
1
3
4
2
With the offset
4
2
1
3

Or is it wrong?

Post by **Jadzwin** » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:42 pm

Yes you right. But I move the sequence to start injection 180 + trigger angle before TDC.
Now you can use angle delay to tune the best injection anlge on idle.

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:01 am

Ok to get my injection timing with your settings i have to use 60degree angle delay, right?

And you say i can Play with the angle delay to get the best injection timing. How can i see what is the best injection timing?

Lowest VE and afr about 14? Or what are the conditions to look at?

Sorry for the stupid questions.

Post by **Jadzwin** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:38 am

The target is the lowest AFR at the same VE.
Try different values and look what is going on...

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Okay that means if i use an ignition offset of 180 im at the following sequence:

4
2
1
3

and that where normally right, and the fuel injected when the intake valve opens, right? Or is the right pysical injection time offset 180+60=240?

With the other injector calibrations the VE is now 60 at idle and AFR is on 14,7. The WBO Rcal was fortunately at 98 ohms and 100 was default

We make a lot of runs at the german Autobahn

and tuned up to 200kPa mostly at AFR 12,5 and at fift gear at 5500rpm the EGT enrichment began to work and at the end AFR was at 11,4, very rich and EGT was at 960-970°C (before turbine).
I think that is a problem of my camshafts because i use some of an 20V without Turbo and they have to mutch valve overlap. I will fix that in the future and change the intake camshaft angle.

The boost control work fine with DC correction table but i will test and calibrate the PID too.

Another question in my head is when i drive with EGO correction at the complete table what happens when the EGT enrichment appears? Will they work aginst each other?

And once again a big thank you from germany for the support of all of you

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:31 am

No solutions to my follwing questions?

Jan32 wrote:Okay that means if i use an ignition offset of 180 im at the following sequence:

4
2
1
3

and that where normally right, and the fuel injected when the intake valve opens, right? Or is the right pysical injection time offset 180+60=240?

Another question in my head is when i drive with EGO correction at the complete table what happens when the EGT enrichment appears? Will they work aginst each other?

Post by **Jadzwin** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:19 pm

Hi Jan!

In new software 1.061 the EGT correction is modified.
Now it is under Fuelling parameters.
First you need to choose what EGT probe is used for what injector.
With our EGT to CAN you can connect 4 EGT and correct each injectors based on EGT temp.

If you use EGO feedback the EGT correction may be cancleled by WBO.

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:12 pm

That sound´s very good!

And did i interpreted the injection offset correctly ?

When i use your configuration 2,1,3,4 with an injection offset of 180 then it is 4,2,1,3 an it fits to the ignition sequence. And the injector begin to work when the intake valve opens? Or is my injection offset wrong?

Post by **Jadzwin** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:42 pm

In my proposal the injectors open 180 degress earlier than in in your configuration.
In your config the injector opens 60 degress befor cylinder TDC (60 degrees is trigger angle).
In my 180+60 before TDC

PBU · Post by **PBU** » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:05 pm

Is this the same for every engine ?
Injection 180°+ ign angle before TDC.
Isn't the fuel then condensing on the inlet walls ?

Grts
Patrick

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:05 pm

No but the you can playing with the injector angle, as you can see in the topic. You have to reach lowest afr with the same VE.

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:37 pm

Hello guy´s,

please can you check my knock kontrol settings, i'am not 100% sure if the assignment of ignition events is right.

At the pictures you can see my settings, if i understood the funktion right i think it is correct. But only to be 100% sure port your opinions.

Thanks a lot

Jan32 · Post by **Jan32** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:43 pm

Nobody an idea?

Post by **Jadzwin** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:47 pm

First I would change gain (increase at least to 1) and adjust integrator value.

Your ignition order is 1-3-4-2 with the offset 2 so it is like

4-2-1-3

For event 1 you need to sample ks #2
For event 2 you need to sample ks #1
For event 3 you need to sample ks #1
For event 4 you need to sample ks #2

Knock actions looks ok.

Ecumaster forum

Setting up the knock control at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

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Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Questions about the VE values at a 1,8T AGU

Setting up the knock control at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Setting up the knock control at a 1,8T AGU

Re: Setting up the knock control at a 1,8T AGU