Retrieve data from EMU - need help evaluating map

[Jadzwin]

When you will be at 4000 RPM close the throttle to eg. 10%.
The vaccum appears.

[PSI-Motor]

I talked to the tuner today, and he explained what was going on with the table. It looks bad, but works great. There were some values that were put in simply as a failsafe in areas the car is never supposed to be in. For example vacuum at 6000rpm or high boost at 2000rpm. In the diagonal from vacuum at idle and to full boost at max rpm everything is as it is supposed to be.

We cleaned up the map a bit and took a few runs, no knock and good power. The throttle delay at idle was removed, but the slight starting issue is still there but its not a big problem.

You are kidding us right?
Im wasting my time, your on your own.

[Kisielisodd]

I talked to the tuner today, and he explained what was going on with the table. It looks bad, but works great. There were some values that were put in simply as a failsafe in areas the car is never supposed to be in. For example vacuum at 6000rpm or high boost at 2000rpm. In the diagonal from vacuum at idle and to full boost at max rpm everything is as it is supposed to be.

We cleaned up the map a bit and took a few runs, no knock and good power. The throttle delay at idle was removed, but the slight starting issue is still there but its not a big problem.

You are kidding us right?
Im wasting my time, your on your own.

PSI-Motor in general if You are a "professional tuner" and You know how to sell your product, You can make ignition map flat with 10 degrees of advance. Engine will be running good, and map will be safe up to 250 kpa

Skogs, yours ignition map, may be safe for Your engine (i'm not so sure because it looks like 5 minutes work without any thinking just to take Yours money) but for me and for others it's a garbage. I could make You better map without going out from home, without knocking, without wasting power.

[PSI-Motor]

The car would run of course, but it would be week och run hot on both CLT and EGT.

Would be nice if the "tuner" of this car could come in and comment what he was thinking when he did this

[skogs]

The car would run of course, but it would be week och run hot on both CLT and EGT.

Would be nice if the "tuner" of this car could come in and comment what he was thinking when he did this

I'm trying to learn more about this, so that i can make an opinion myself. Could you elaborate "weak OCH run hot on both CLT and EGT."? What it means, and how you can read that from the table. That would be really helpful.

It's not easy to sort out who i should listen to. Local tuners can be biased by economic interest or reputation. And i have no idea what the credentials of forum-members are. In addition i have supplied very little information about the motor. It's a 3.gen 3sgte with 2,5" exhaust and Blitz EBC-id boost controller. Currently running 1.1Bar, which it reaches at about 3krpm on 3rd gear runs. Using only high octane 98RON petrol.

Of course, i really appreciate all opinions, but i have to make up my own opinion based on facts and knowledge. I have recently acquired basic knowledge on igntion timing, how its supposed to be as close to knock as possible at all loads and rpms. Knock ruins the engine, but what happens if the timing is too retarded?

[Jadzwin]

Hi!

I'm a developer of EMU and I can assure you that your tables do not look good.

Retarded ignition can destroy outlet valves and put thermal stress on turbocharger.


Here are 3sgte tables (you should see the difference between yours and ours). And remeber that there is much much more tables that need to be set up correctly to make the car drive nice and safe.

[skogs]

Here is the revised tables:

The biggest difference between mine and your ignition-table seems to be below 3000rpm. What would be the effect of the more aggressive timing in this area?

In the VE-table we needed those higher numbers below 1000rpm, otherwise it wouldnt rev properly from idle.

Thank you for pitching in by the way! Your words should have some weight to them.

[PSI-Motor]

He tuned the whole ignition mapp backwards

Were do you live? must be some were else you can turn to get your mapp fixed, This guy your using now doesn´t know whats he`s doing or how a engine works :/

[skogs]

Another problem is that the AFR-table doesnt correspond to the readings on my AFR-gauge. Very low load at 2kprm it starts at 12-13, and then progresses to 16-17 and back to 12-14 as i apply more throttle. Idles at 12.

[PSI-Motor]

Another problem is that the AFR-table doesnt correspond to the readings on my AFR-gauge. Very low load at 2kprm it starts at 12-13, and then progresses to 16-17 and back to 12-14 as i apply more throttle. Idles at 12.

Thats beacause your tune is crap, both VE and ignition table.

[Kisielisodd]

More aggressive ignition timing would result in engine knocking. Your map is against physics laws. Timing should rise with RPMs, in vacuum timing should be more advanced that it is. You have 2 examples, from PSI-Motor and from Jadzwin. Both are from different car, but both are similar. Your ignition map look totally different, made in opposite way.
The maps that Jadwin showed, was made by me, for stock st205 celica gt4.

[PSI-Motor]

More aggressive ignition timing would result in engine knocking. Your map is against physics laws. Timing should rise with RPMs, in vacuum timing should be more advanced that it is. You have 2 examples, from PSI-Motor and from Jadzwin. Both are from different car, but both are similar. Your ignition map look totally different, made in opposite way.
The maps that Jadwin showed, was made by me, for stock st205 celica gt4.

Very nice tables! Well done!

[skogs]

This is what i am able to read from my current map, please correct me if im wrong.

Too retarded ignition at low load and high rpms causes unecessary heat in the exhaust.

Too advanced timing at low rpms and mid/high loads combined with lean mixture can cause knocking. However, how serious can knock be when the boost is low? By lean i mean literary off the scale.

Correct?

[skogs]

Useable VE table?

Made it using Kisielisodd's table as a guide, most as an excersize.

Usable AFR table?

Made this using inspiration from several AFR-maps. It seems logical. Close to 14.7 in the cruising area for fuel effiency. Gradually decreasing when the boost comes on to prevent knocking. Gradually decreasing with rising rpm at low load just for safety.

[nathan-rydell]

what is the problem? it seems like your car is running and everything work like it should right? i have seen a lot of toyotas running aggressive timing under 3-4000 but if your car is as you said mapped at the road it is not the same as in an dyno, you vil never find all those "dips" in the tables but it will still working great, on your last uploading here (from your edu) i don't see any problems driving with it, there is a lot of places you are not in in the complete tables.

if you make it yourself and go out driving with it with and do not how it is working, it will for shore die.

[skogs]

what is the problem? it seems like your car is running and everything work like it should right? i have seen a lot of toyotas running aggressive timing under 3-4000 but if your car is as you said mapped at the road it is not the same as in an dyno, you vil never find all those "dips" in the tables but it will still working great, on your last uploading here (from your edu) i don't see any problems driving with it, there is a lot of places you are not in in the complete tables.

if you make it yourself and go out driving with it with and do not how it is working, it will for shore die.

18AFR at boost isnt safe no matter what, especially combined with aggressive timing. The tables i made is based on safe 3sgte maps, and is just temporary until i get it on a dyno. Of course i will be logging ARF, timing and knock. An ecumaster employee has offered to take a look at the logs to confirm if its safe, and help me with the tables.

[nathan-rydell]

what is the problem? it seems like your car is running and everything work like it should right? i have seen a lot of toyotas running aggressive timing under 3-4000 but if your car is as you said mapped at the road it is not the same as in an dyno, you vil never find all those "dips" in the tables but it will still working great, on your last uploading here (from your edu) i don't see any problems driving with it, there is a lot of places you are not in in the complete tables.

if you make it yourself and go out driving with it with and do not how it is working, it will for shore die.

18AFR at boost isnt safe no matter what, especially combined with aggressive timing. The tables i made is based on safe 3sgte maps, and is just temporary until i get it on a dyno. Of course i will be logging ARF, timing and knock. An ecumaster employee has offered to take a look at the logs to confirm if its safe, and help me with the tables.

it depend if it is with almost no throttle, i can't se where it should goo in 18 in your map..

[skogs]

There seems to be no correspondance between target afr and actual afr. Gauge shows the same as the graf, so it is correct.

[nathan-rydell]

This is at Almost no boost

[skogs]

This is at Almost no boost

So its ok that the AFR increases with load?

Stock ecu cruised at about 14, then was reduced together with applied throttle. Now its opposite until i reach a certain boost level, then it starts dropping again.

Besides, actual AFR is supposed to follow target AFR. Which it doesnt.