3sgte car wont start with EMU, starts fine with stock ECU

[rockyboist]

So I have hooked it up with the plug and play harness from ATS that came with the base map, followed the steps needed before starting-- IAT installed and removed AFM (used 2 wires from AFM and connected to the IAT of EMU), TPS voltages configured, MTX-L hooked up and configured.

But when I start, it wont start. Seems like it is not dumping any fuel as there is no sign of it. We connected a test light on the injector, it wouldnt lit while trying to start. Added fuel on the VE table, no go. Tried playing around with the cranking fuel, didnt help as well. The State on the bottom of EMU says Inactive.

So then I connected my stock ECU, put back my AFM and disconnected the IAT, it fired without any issues, the test lights are working while connected to the injector with the stock ECU. So I would think that the injectors are not receiving any voltage when EMU is connected thats why it is not starting.

So I reconnected back the EMU back, and this time I left the AFM connected and the IAT not connected to EMU, I wanted to see what will happen, this time there is a sign of fuel as I can smell it and it tries to crank now, but it wouldnt continue. Just a good sign that it has fuel now. The State on the bottom of EMU software would now say Cranking.

So I suspect that this is either configuration/settings related, or IAT issue, or the wiring of it especially the connection of the injector/fuel relays.

Please advise.. I want this thing to work!!

My setup is:
OEM harness with the PnP adapter from ATS
MSD Digital 6AL (stock igniter still installed)
MSD HVC coil
MSD tach adapter
Stock distributor
540 cc stock 3rd gen injectors

[PSI-Motor]

Does it syncronise?
Please post log and scope. There are help files under F1.

[rockyboist]

No it doesnt, I thought I would synchronize once the car started and warmed up. But it never started yet. I'll take the logs and scope when I get back to the shop where I left the car.

[ihiryu]

Sounds like an issue with the cam/crank.

It will never fire if it doesn't sync.

[rockyboist]

What could be the possible causes I could look at?

[ihiryu]

I would scope your signal wires.

[rockyboist]

Car is starting now after playing with the relay settings. Weird is that initially when I had the issue, the settings for Fuel Pump Relay was a checked Invert output while the Main Relay's Invert output was unchecked.

So I enabled (checked) the Invert Output on Main Relay and then the car started. But... After a couple of minutes idling, I stepped on the gas to see if it revs, the car died. Now it would start but it dies right away, it seemed that the fuel pump wouldnt stay on. I had someone try to listen to it and verified that the pump would turn off after the car turns on.

So then I have removed the check on Main Relay's Invert output (which was the original setting the car never started), now the car starts fine! Very weird. Looks like the car just needed a kick. lol

The car now starts fine with a good AFR, I didnt even have to touch the VE table, it was a spot on (startup map provided by ATS).

1. Now I let it idle again until it warmed up, I found a few more different issues and the one that is major is that when I rev the car at neutral, there is a delay in the rise of the rpm when I step on the gas pedal, in fact it would drop by 50-100 rpm first before it goes up. And at the same time the rpm drops, the vacuum reading is erratic at 0. So not sure if this is because I havent synched my ignition yet, or a vacuum leak perhaps?

2. My MTX-L is connected already to Analog In 2 (yellow wire from MTX-L), and it has been configured already based on the MTX manual. Problem is when I brought up the AFR gauge under gauges, it is not displaying the actual AFR, the needle just sits at 10AFR (while the actual MTX gauge shows 14.5), with no reaction when I rev.

[gips]

Your table needs adjustment. Startup map is only to start the car and possibly drive it to the tuner. The fact that ATS have provided an almost perfectly drivable map does not mean it does not have to be adjusted. Actually its a lot on the rich side except in very low load, where it is almost spot on depending on what you need. After you finish the VE table you need to work on the Idle and then on the TPS accel enrichment, and i am not even mentioning the Ignition map. So in short there is nothing wrong with the ECU, or the wiring, it just has to be mapped properly. You can wire the Wideband directly and skip the controller that you mentioned, if you are having issues with its input.
And one more thing The stock AFM has a THW input, used for the thermistor inside it to measure the IAT. You can use that input for IAT. Its accurate and you don't need to ditch the AFM. Use the Toyota 2JZ IAT preconfigured sensor values, and only adjust the cold value to be 4500Ohms instead of 3500 and you are good to go. Tested and works

[ATS_Scott]

Your table needs adjustment. Startup map is only to start the car and possibly drive it to the tuner. The fact that ATS have provided an almost perfectly drivable map does not mean it does not have to be adjusted. Actually its a lot on the rich side except in very low load, where it is almost spot on depending on what you need. After you finish the VE table you need to work on the Idle and then on the TPS accel enrichment, and i am not even mentioning the Ignition map. So in short there is nothing wrong with the ECU, or the wiring, it just has to be mapped properly. You can wire the Wideband directly and skip the controller that you mentioned, if you are having issues with its input.
And one more thing The stock AFM has a THW input, used for the thermistor inside it to measure the IAT. You can use that input for IAT. Its accurate and you don't need to ditch the AFM. Use the Toyota 2JZ IAT preconfigured sensor values, and only adjust the cold value to be 4500Ohms instead of 3500 and you are good to go. Tested and works

All good points!,

Except keeping the ugly AFM...

[ihiryu]

On your wideband, does it react to any changes at all? Or is it stuck at one AFR regardless of change on the gauge?

It it only displays ONE AFR then I would imagine it's an issue with the wiring

[ATS_Scott]

On your wideband, does it react to any changes at all? Or is it stuck at one AFR regardless of change on the gauge?

It it only displays ONE AFR then I would imagine it's an issue with the wiring

Yes, the log he sent me has 0v on all 4 analog channels, and it's displaying 7.3AFR constantly as it's calibrated to at 0V.

[Karel]

To be honest....... i finished wiring on Celica 3SGTE engine, not using the adapter, but using the same layout, and .................. it startet on base map, and died after 2 seconds
Why ? How to resolve it ?

Because i made already discovery, i found information that there are many variations, and many injectors used in the engine. So i changed from 550ccm to 440ccm in setup, some small changes in VE map, and the car idles...... and now, lets set base timimng, calibrate sensors, tps, and finally tune it.

The biggest issue was to remove all the "changes" on the car made before me, like water injection, electronic boost controler etc...

[rockyboist]

Update:

1. I will work on the fuelling and other maps later as for yesterday I was only able to set the base timing, TPS, corrected the AFR wiring, and idle hunt a bit. Done this Sunday, so next will be next weekend.

2. The AFR is now recognized connected to the Analog in 2, so the problem was wiring, I looked at the pin diagram on the EMU from the wrong side. So it was connected to the Cam sync 2 pin on the EMU. Scott made me realized.

Thanks Gips and Scott and to others providing their inputs. I am surprised the community here is active though it didnt seem that it is when I first looked at it. You know I'm not a tuner so I will sound stupid at times here but I only want to tune my own car and to explore this EMU. The support from ATS/Scott and EMU has been very great. Just want to give Scott's mailbox some rest so I also posted here.

**Scott, I will reply to your email shortly, just that the forum is more accessible than my work email

[rockyboist]

To be honest....... i finished wiring on Celica 3SGTE engine, not using the adapter, but using the same layout, and .................. it startet on base map, and died after 2 seconds
Why ? How to resolve it ?

Because i made already discovery, i found information that there are many variations, and many injectors used in the engine. So i changed from 550ccm to 440ccm in setup, some small changes in VE map, and the car idles...... and now, lets set base timimng, calibrate sensors, tps, and finally tune it.

The biggest issue was to remove all the "changes" on the car made before me, like water injection, electronic boost controler etc...

I had the MSD digital 6AL, HVC coil, and tach adapter before I hooked the EMU up. Should this cause any issue? I thought I can have them removed if I find any issue later. But for now I am still at the stage of monitoring/checking that everything is good before tuning the maps especially VE. My throttle response is bad so I'll work on it first.

[RHD]

when using an MSD they require the same setting as wiring the coils direct ie. coils WITHOUT amplifier

[rockyboist]

It is still wired the way it should be wired on a stock ECU. I even have the tach adaptor still, this one is required for Toyota ECUs so the rp,s/tachometer still works.

Would this cause any issue?

[Karel]

And this is how it ends

[ATS_Scott]

The biggest issue was to remove all the "changes" on the car made before me, like water injection, electronic boost controler etc...

Oh yes, that is always a problem. Previous changes.